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Post by goodhelenstar on Jan 27, 2020 15:02:25 GMT
Yes, that's right. Carol, Tom's mother, was going to stay overnight, which I didn't think was significant at the time. Kate told her to F off, because she was fussing about one of the children falling over and thought they should have been better supervised, which I took to be a criticism of Kate at the time. Tom gave her a glass of wine which she downed in one, pretty silly if she was the driver that day and highly irresponsible of Tom to give it to her on top of medication (unless that was the point, but their children were in the car). She and Tom had a spat and she then drove off with the girls and Jess. But I have no idea where that is in relation to Jess and her IVF, and I'm assuming it was some time before the fire as on that day the school went out to see the cycle race and later had a barn dance. There was no mention of her birthday on that day that I recall. Was Tom wearing his horrid mustard sweater on beach day? I'll have to remind myself.
I thought the same about the crabs! They looked like dinner rather than the tiny ones you'd collect! And wouldn't they have been taught to put them back if they weren't intending to eat them?
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Post by bethb63 on Jan 27, 2020 16:21:33 GMT
We saw Jess going into a hospital cubicle after the crash, but nobody seemed overly concerned that she was miscarrying. But each time we go back, they show a little more of the aftermath. So it could still be coming.
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Post by hoodylover on Jan 27, 2020 19:04:39 GMT
I've just had a thought. I wondered why Steve would want the kids to die in the fire and couldn't think of a reason. Jess has been little Miss Sweetness all through this, apart from her bit of rumpy pumpy with Tom. Someone said she was pregnant then said "Sorry" to Jess because of her problems conceiving. Jess said "It's fine, congratulations". If the posters who think Jess miscarried after the crash are right, there's Jess's motive. It might have tipped her over the edge. The thought of Kate having children when she couldn't might have made her want to destroy the whole family. She might have only had sex with Tom (apparently he'd gone there before with Kate's friends) to hurt Kate, before she killed them all. Or to hurt her own partner, who'd also had his own children.
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Post by goodhelenstar on Jan 27, 2020 19:28:18 GMT
It was Steve's ex-wife, the mother of his children, who is pregnant. I can't seriously believe anyone, however unhinged, would deliberately start a fire with the intention of murdering three children, the children of friends, unless it was either Tom or Kate who also intended to die. Cards on the table – I think it will turn out to be Kate. Tom is too controlling, too on top of his life. But we'll see!
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Post by marion on Jan 27, 2020 19:29:36 GMT
Hmmm, that's a very cogent theory. Jess wasn't even on my radar as the killer! But I thought she didn't have the embryos implanted until after the crash, but I am struggling with the timeline I must admit.
If Tom is a sociopath and therefore without true empathy etc, I can see him deciding to kill Kate (who dared to be quite snippy with him) and the children possibly with a view to replacing them with more amenable models, and to do so whilst leaving himself only slightly hurt or easy to rescue. But an inferno seems to be a rather dangerous way of going about that!
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Post by goodhelenstar on Jan 27, 2020 19:54:11 GMT
I guess we have to remember Harold Shipman, whose patients I believe all liked him until suspicions were raised. And the docudrama, The Staircase, based on true events, which was the writer's inspiration. In that the husband was convicted but the conviction was unsound. She's playing with our perceptions, isn't she? But as this is fiction it could go off at any tangent.
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Post by bethb63 on Jan 27, 2020 20:04:59 GMT
When we saw the embryos being implanted, they said it was the second round of IVF. So the first time could well have been before the crash.
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Post by geometryman on Jan 28, 2020 0:38:08 GMT
Yes, second round, and Jess also said to Kate at the ceilidh in ep.1 "the embryos go back in next week". Jess was drinking at the beach party I think (something from a bottle, I assumed beer), which was just before the crash - so I don't believe she was pregnant then. At that time either the first IVF round had failed, or hadn't yet started.
I have a very hard time believing it's Jess. With the second IVF round imminent when the deaths happened, surely she'd be hopeful rather than bitter? Also she's virtually the storyteller in this series, we see a lot through her eyes.
My money's still on Tom. When he came round in hospital after being rescued he claimed not to know what had happened ("what did she do?"), but in the police interview he was recounting what she did. Sasha - Kate's friend from Teacher Training who Tom also had sex with - looked like she suspected him. "Puts on a good show, doesn't he?" she said to Jess at Kate's funeral.
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Post by bethb63 on Feb 1, 2020 7:07:54 GMT
Obviously, we overthought this, and the conclusion was very much simpler and straightforward. Which was kind of a relief for me.
One quibble: the case would have had a huge amount of media attention, which wasn’t addressed at all. Surely someone at Kate’s lawyers would have noticed the connection and told the police? Also, I highly doubt they would’ve left such an informative message on voicemail.
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Post by goodhelenstar on Feb 1, 2020 9:29:05 GMT
Yes, especially given that the reason Kate was going to divorce Tom was his controlling habits. But any message a solicitor has ever left for me has only consisted of a request to return the call.
So the purpose of the crash in the plot was so that Kate could meet Steve in hospital and tell him she feared for her life. I still think it was overly dramatic and astonishing that no one was badly hurt. And Jess's IVF storyline was to give her some vulnerability so that she was more likely to be seduced by Tom.
I'm not sure why Tom set fire to the house. If he intended to die himself, the insulin would have done the job and it would have been much longer before they were found. If he meant to survive, he took quite a lot of risk – that he wouldn't survive the fire, clearly, but also that the police would reach the conclusion they did reach. Kate would not have had access to insulin which is very tightly controlled (though I dare say you can find it on the internet if you know where to look – would Kate have done that? She did have a source of weed but that's more likely to have been Dylan and his mates). Tom on the other hand coolly took it home in its proper containers and knew how much to give them all. All that would have been found, along with the syringe with his prints and not hers. Perhaps the point is that he had given himself Godlike status and simply assumed he'd get away with it.
Anyway, as a study of the darker side of human nature it was very effective, with terrific performances from all the leads. And well done Matthew McNulty for not letting his accent slip!
As for the title, 'dead water' is a term for very still water, so perhaps it was exploring the notion that still waters run deep. 'Fell' still grates a bit, but a very small point for a really moving story.
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Post by hoodylover on Feb 2, 2020 18:24:05 GMT
I’ve just watched Episode 4. It was excellent! I was totally on the wrong track, but there was some great acting in this. Maureen Beattie was very good and Tennant was positively chilling! The children were good actors too. A very good drama, and such a sad storyline.
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Post by linseed on Feb 2, 2020 19:03:27 GMT
I had to watch a small video clip of DT being nice, and funny and kind after, just to get to sleep! So chilling.
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Post by diziet sma on Feb 4, 2020 3:47:59 GMT
Have to admit I didn't stick with this. Too confusing and depressing.
(If you like DT his podcast series is worth a listen. He spends an hour or so talking to actors that he knows about their careers. Olivia Coleman, Jodie W, Katherine Tate and others. Nice, fun chat - worth a listen.)
Did Lisa Mcgrillis end up having a part in the story? She's great and I don't why she was in it if she didn't have much of a part in the story.
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Post by geometryman on Feb 4, 2020 8:23:58 GMT
I expected her to have a bigger role than she did. She was never really part of the 'whodunnit' plot and seemed to be included primarily to highlight the situation with Steve & Jess - they were struggling with rounds of IVF, whereas she was the mother of Steve's boys and expecting another child with her new partner.
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Post by diziet sma on Feb 4, 2020 15:02:30 GMT
Thanks GM.
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