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Post by yankee on Oct 9, 2019 18:17:13 GMT
I don't know if it is completely the same in gymnastics but I know in figure skating for example the scoring has as much to do with the difficulty of the overall routine as it does with flawless execution.
There was a woman figure skater in the last Olympics who skated a lovely, classical, old school routine. Flawless. Didn't miss a single jump or spin or footwork passage.
She wound up finishing 6th or 7th.
Other skaters, who actually had a fall in their routine and looked more athletic than graceful in other parts finished higher because their routines had more complex elements - such as quad jumps and triple/triple combos - so they started with a higher base of difficulty to begin with, so even after being marked down for mistakes still finished higher than the girl who had a flawless routine that was less difficult.
From a purely aesthetic perspective of a viewer I found the 7th place skaters routine much more entertaining to watch.
I suppose it stands to reason gymnastics are scored the same and falling doesn't necessarily get you knocked down the ladder if your routine is extremely difficult or by the opposite end that equation, falling in a relatively easier routine can get you completely knocked out of medal contention.
As a casual viewer of gymnastics I don't think I would know the difference between a super complex routine and a relatively easier one and TV presenters don't always point out the specifics.
Figure skating it seems to be easier for the viewer and the TV presenters always say "here comes the quad" or "here comes the triple/triple" and its easier to spot the harder routines. |
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Post by Miranda on Oct 9, 2019 19:01:58 GMT
You may be on your own tomorrow as I'm out at the theatre so I'll be a day behind from now on. It's the women's all-around so I won't be watching it anyway. But I will watch the men's. |
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Post by Miranda on Oct 9, 2019 19:05:35 GMT
Yankee - the scoring is the same as in skating where each element has it's own score according to difficulty and then there are execution scores on top.
I'm much like you in that I prefer to see an easier routine performed flawlessly than a tricky one with falls. But then, when the tricky moves are pulled off, it does make it more exciting. For instance, the Chinese athlete who got over 16 this afternoon on the high bar, that was magical to watch. A difficulty of 7 with barely a mistake. Just beautiful.
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Post by yankee on Oct 9, 2019 19:08:12 GMT
It would be interesting if they one day decided to standardize the various apparatus so that the men and women didn't perform different cycles.
I would like to see men be able to do the uneven bars or balance beam, women do the high bar, pommel or rings for example.
Maybe by expanding it a bit you could have both individual and team competitions that were more diverse and allowed for more athletes to have a chance to medal.
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Post by yankee on Oct 9, 2019 19:13:00 GMT
Yankee - the scoring is the same as in skating where each element has it's own score according to difficulty and then there are execution scores on top. I'm much like you in that I prefer to see an easier routine performed flawlessly than a tricky one with falls. But then, when the tricky moves are pulled off, it does make it more exciting. For instance, the Chinese athlete who got over 16 this afternoon on the high bar, that was magical to watch. A difficulty of 7 with barely a mistake. Just beautiful. Thanks for confirming Miranda!
As I said, I'm not as good a differentiating the routine elements in gymnastics as I am at figure skating (where its really all about the jumps).
I know in gymnastics a lot of times it comes down to the difficulty of the dismount or ending or whatever its referred to but I honestly often cant tell the difference between a super complex one and a much easier one. They all look hard to me!
And a floor exercise, I have no clue. They are doing tumbling passes interspersed with a little hip hop dancing and I cant tell a hard one form an easier one. 
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Post by Miranda on Oct 9, 2019 19:14:55 GMT
 Well, generally a triple twist with a pike into a layout somersault is marked higher than a double twist with no pike into a layout walkover. It's all about the twists. |
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Post by Miranda on Oct 9, 2019 19:18:09 GMT
It would be interesting if they one day decided to standardize the various apparatus so that the men and women didn't perform different cycles. I would like to see men be able to do the uneven bars or balance beam, women do the high bar, pommel or rings for example. Maybe by expanding it a bit you could have both individual and team competitions that were more diverse and allowed for more athletes to have a chance to medal. Normally I would agree but in this case no. The different apparatus arises out of the different strengths of men and women. Men do pommel and rings cos their upper bodies are generally much stronger. But they really struggle on beam because their centre of balance is much higher due to the wide back and narrow hips. So the competition wouldn't really even out that much. |
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Post by yankee on Oct 9, 2019 19:20:12 GMT
Well, generally a triple twist with a pike into a layout somersault is marked higher than a double twist with no pike into a layout walkover. It's all about the twists. Wow you are good with all the technical lingo! You should be on the telly!
Just add in a little fawning and some melodrama anecdotes about their difficult "journey" and you are a natural! 
And it pays well! 
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Post by Miranda on Oct 9, 2019 19:23:25 GMT
I've been watching it since I was knee high to a duck so I should have all the lingo! Unfortunately our broadcasters use ex-gymnasts as commentators so I'd be out.
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Post by Rufus Firefly on Oct 9, 2019 19:30:13 GMT
..been some excellent eastern european Women gymnasts over the years....Vera Caslavska....Olga Korbut....Nadia Comeneci...
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Post by yankee on Oct 9, 2019 19:35:26 GMT
I'm much the same with figure skating. The US has always had good figure skaters, men, women, pairs, but we were never very relevant in gymnastics until the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics.
After that, every little girl wanted to be Mary Lou Retton and gymnastics schools popped up all over the country and a dynasty was born.
On the women's side anyway. Much like footie our men's team is still second tier.
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Post by Miranda on Oct 9, 2019 20:05:39 GMT
Our gymnastics teams only really got good once they got proper funding through the National Lottery. In fact, the Lottery has been the reason for us becoming a force in quite a lot of sports.
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Post by Miranda on Oct 9, 2019 20:08:35 GMT
Mary Lou Retton - she the one that had to do a final vault with a trashed ankle to get the gold? I remember that. She showed some real courage.
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Post by yankee on Oct 9, 2019 20:28:55 GMT
Mary Lou Retton - she the one that had to do a final vault with a trashed ankle to get the gold? I remember that. She showed some real courage. That was Kerri Strug in the 1994 Atlanta Olmypics. She was a very slight, graceful gymnast. Yes, getting carried around by her coach like a doll in between vaults.
Mary Lou Retton was a very "butch" gymnast for lack of a better term. Very powerful approach, "attacked" the apparatus more so than was graceful on it.
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Post by yankee on Oct 9, 2019 20:31:13 GMT
Our gymnastics teams only really got good once they got proper funding through the National Lottery. In fact, the Lottery has been the reason for us becoming a force in quite a lot of sports. That is interesting how your squads are funded.
There is no government funding of any U.S. Olympic/amateur sports.
Its 100% funded on private donations and corporate sponsorship.
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Anymore to come?
