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Post by yankee on Mar 9, 2020 1:56:45 GMT
SUPERB finale. We can discuss more after you see it.
Make sure to watch past the end credits!
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Post by yankee on Mar 10, 2020 13:40:21 GMT
A few observations I had from the finale.
This was IMO the best written episode, aside from maybe the first episode. I don't know if it was the same screen writer throughout the series - based of course on King's story - but this episode was really well done.
The dialog between the characters was tight - seemingly every word that was said was important to the story.
The scene in the bear cave with the entity was particularly well done. It could have been cheesy, like a James Bond film where the villain goes off on some long-winded rant explaining in detail his plans for world domination, allow plenty of time for James Bond to escape.
Instead, the dialog was brief, the entity very reluctant to converse with Holly and Ralph.
The scene where the team had to formulate their conspiracy was also very well handled. A lot of horror films just end with the hero/s killing the monster with no explanation of how they recount such an unbelievable story to the authorities.
Here they put together an air-tight, believable story that explained all the dead bodies at scene of the cave entrance, got Terry's name cleared, we saw Holly at Andy's memorial service, Jeannie burning the chair. And then the final shot (before the Easter Egg with Holly) of the little boy's gravestone, bringing the story full circle. There were some far fetched elements, such as it being a bit convenient that the rattle snake decided to cozy up to Jack. Rattle snakes are very shy and timid. You usually have to stumble across them. It seems very unlikely a rattle snake would be crawling about the woods amidst the sound of gun fire and explosions. If anything it would be hunkered down under the nearest rock or fallen tree branches.
Also the snake bit Jack multiple times. Rattle snakes usually bite just once then scurry off to let the venom do its work then come back to eat their prey. And the venom was just enough to take the edge off the entity's power over Jack and allow him to stumble down the hill and tell the team the entity was in the cave before killing himself.
The series did of course leave some open-ended questions, either to drive the viewer bonkers or perhaps set the table for series 2.
What happens to Claude now? The woman in New York is another living host so I suppose its proof that a host can go on living their life after the doppelganger is gone.
Was the body in the cave truly Doppelganger Claude? We did see it shape shifting and it did have a bullet hole. But if it was actually Doppelganger Claude Holly helped out of the cave, and that is when he scratched her, it could have been Host Claude lying dying in the cave and that is why - the now Host Holly - came back to stab him in the heart to ensure he died before telling Ralph he was the real Claude.
And what about the other murdered boy? Did Yunis set up this fabricated story as part of the conspiracy to clear Terry's name just in case they never did find the entity in Tennessee?
Then there is the open ended story of Jack's secret lover and illegitimate child. That story line was just left hanging |
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Post by geometryman on Mar 11, 2020 9:10:08 GMT
A good finale (even if 25% of it was taken up with the shoot-out).
According to the subtitles (again!), yes. The body in the cave's lines were captioned "EL CUCO: ..."., those of the survivor they helped out of the cave were captioned "CLAUDE: ...".
Yes, you could be right, that makes sense.
Why didn't Jack kill Holly? - he had her in his sights. Was it Jack's own decision, or that of El Cuco who was controlling him? During early episodes I thought Holly would be 'The Outsider" of the series title. As she said to Ralph, explaining why she believed in El Cuco, "An outsider knows an outsider" - maybe the same was true the other way round. Jack himself, too, had become an outsider by the end.
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Post by yankee on Mar 11, 2020 11:53:27 GMT
Excellent point! I hadnt thought about a possible higher meaning to the title!
If there were polar opposites of good vs. evil with El Cuco being the evil and Holly being the good that may explain Jack's inability to kill Holly on two occasions.
The first time, someone with his skill would not have missed so many times when driving off in the car.
The 2nd time of course in the finale.
It would also explain why strangers involved in other El Cuco murders were so instantly drawn to her. The care workers brother at the cemetery, the girl in prison, the woman who passed her the note.
But what now that she has been taken over as new host. I guess we will see if there is a series 2.
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Post by geometryman on Mar 11, 2020 23:35:08 GMT
Next up (in the same timeslot as The Outsider) is season 3 of Westworld. I expect to need a lot of help understanding that - I was extremely confused most of the time in seasons 1-2.
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Post by diziet sma on Mar 21, 2020 16:25:01 GMT
Excellent final 2 episodes. Thanks for the heads up about the end credits. I had deleted the ep and had to go back and undelete it, or I would have missed that. I had a feeling Holly's boyfriend was there to be shot, but what a shame for Bill Camp, I liked him. Of the course the drug mis-user had to die. Am I right in thinking then that the entity had been trapped in the cave since the big landslide And then it escaped when the 2 farmers' sons found a new opening? Were they the other murders that shed fresh light on the case and helped clear Jason Bateman's name? There are behind the scenes 5 minute specials with interviews with the cast, writers and Stephen King if anyone wants to see them. The playlist is here. www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hbo+the+outsider+inside+look+ |
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Post by diziet sma on Mar 21, 2020 16:28:36 GMT
As for Westworld, I gave up after season 1. It was so slow and repetitive, not to mention confusing. I kept watching thinking it would make sense and go somewhere but it didn't. Or if it did I couldn't follow it.
Plus, Anthony Hopkins gets on my ****. If he's such a good actor why is he the same in everything (well since Hannibal Lector anyway)?
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Post by geometryman on Mar 22, 2020 9:23:58 GMT
I think yes it was trapped since the landslide, no it didn't escape when the boys found a new opening. The 2 farmer's sons stuff was happening back in 1947, before the rockfall that sealed up the rescue party trying to get to them (and presumably the boys themselves). If the entity escaped then it would have been out and about for over 70 years, and I've been assuming its escape was recent.
What I think is, the opening the boys used was at first too small for adults to get through, but the ill-fated rescue party enlarged it and got in that way. That entrance gave no access to the bear cave and rescue party once the rockfall happened, and was itself sealed off by an earthquake which happened a few years back from the present time (according to Seale). Again according to Seale, the only other way in was through the old gift shop - that had been cemented up since 1947, but druggies had recently broken in through it for somewhere to go for their activities. This was what allowed the entity to escape, I believe. It was the way Ralph, Holly and real Claude got in, and had been used by the entity/doppelganger Claude because its slime was spotted by Holly on a handrail beside some steps.
I'd go along with Yankee's suggestion, that the recent boy's murder in Georgia was deliberately faked by Yunis to clear Terry Maitland's name, or possibly was the work of a second entity.
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Post by diziet sma on Mar 23, 2020 2:46:23 GMT
Thanks GM.
I guess the theory that Jack was the father of his partner's baby didn't pan out.
I totally failed to recognise Max Beesley as Seale!
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Post by yankee on Apr 9, 2020 23:59:47 GMT
Interesting that both Claude and Seale were played by British actors.
It seems for whatever reason British actors do incredibly authentic sounding Southern American accents.
In general I'd say they do quite well with all manner of American accent, but especially so with Southern drawl.
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Post by geometryman on Apr 10, 2020 6:18:02 GMT
Y'all used to say that the Southern drawl was the only US regional accent Brits could do convincingly. I used to amuse myself by practising with:
There was a young belle of old Natchez
Whose garments were always in patchez.
When comment arose
On the state of her clothes,
She drawled, "When Ah itchez, Ah scratchez."
British actors do seem to have extended their range recently. Maybe dialect coaching techniques have improved.
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Post by diziet sma on Apr 24, 2020 14:53:23 GMT
On that note chaps, Daniel Craig is absolutely superb in Knives Out. How authentic it is, I wouldn't like to say, but it adds a lot to what is a terrific film.
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Post by yankee on Apr 24, 2020 14:55:50 GMT
I've only seen the trailer but I have to agree!
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Post by yankee on Apr 24, 2020 15:12:59 GMT
I think my first encounter with an authentic hillbilly accent from across the pond was Liam Neeson in 1989 in the Patrick Swayze film "Next of Kin."
On first listen it sounds like an exaggerated Benny Hill skit hillbilly accent. A lot of people might have felt it was actually a poor attempt.
But Leeson's character is from the Kentucky coal mine area. I have have a lot of family in Kentucky. My dad was from Kentucky and never fully lost his accent. And that is how they sound in that part of the state. So he did his homework.
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Anymore to come?
